Curse

Thorax Daye · Nov 17, 2007, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Does the WoR Healer also goes for Rt/N?

cyber88 · Nov 17, 2007, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorax Daye

Does the WoR Healer also goes for Rt/N?

That I am not too sure though but there is a high chance it is.

Draikin · Nov 17, 2007, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Does anyone know exactly which update fixed the problems with Weapon Spells on heroes? It's really a significant change, they used to be absolutely horrible at using them but now almost every weapon spell is used correctly.

Sab · Nov 18, 2007, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorax Daye

Does the WoR Healer also goes for Rt/N?

You mean, does the WoR build also work for Rt/ primaries? Well, yes, with a few changes. You'd probably want to swap out Vengeful and Signet of Lost Souls for P-Drain and Leech Sig.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draikin

Does anyone know exactly which update fixed the problems with Weapon Spells on heroes? It's really a significant change, they used to be absolutely horrible at using them but now almost every weapon spell is used correctly.

Ensign made a post shortly after the update here (so I guess it was Oct 19-ish):

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10209808

Draikin · Nov 18, 2007, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Ensign made a post shortly after the update here (so I guess it was Oct 19-ish):

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10209808

Thanks, I didn't notice that thread.

Palek · Nov 19, 2007, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Cobalt Thanks for infotmation about Rejuvenation. I dislike Life, because of my hero don't use one rightly. Moreover, I add rune of blood (4 blood magic) N/Rt and replace Life on Blood Ritual. This is good for quick start of fighting. As for healing of minions, I use Seed of Life. On sunspear rank 10, Divine Favor 13-16, weapon enchantment 20% longer and correct target, this skill have 6s duration and give a huge of heal on group of minions.

ScuZZ · Nov 19, 2007, 06:45 PM // 18:45

I used this with my monk using only Ursan Blessing and cleared ascalon area HM in 20 minutes. And Regent Valley and Pockmark (took a bit longer). But very nice.. Only bit it twice. Stupid mesmer monsters.

ump · Nov 19, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

My variation to put more damage on heroes because I am a monk.

1) Reversal of Fortune, Dwayna's Kiss, Light of Deliverance, Protective Spirit, Pain Inverter, Technobabble, Shield of Absorption, Aegis

Heals and prots as needed. Instead of condition removal and hex removal, I bring Pain Inverter which is great to get that first kill, especially for AoE damagers or for a boss. Plus, Technobabble is a decent AoE damage skill that sometimes provides daze that is otherwise missing from this setup.

2) Animate Bone Minions, Animate Shambling Horror, Jagged Bones, Blood of the Master, Death Nova, Putrid Bile, Putrid Flesh, Signet of Lost Souls

First of all, I had one too many times when the minion master used death pact signet and then died because of it causing all minions to turn on me. Therefore, that skill had to go. Animate Bone Minions has a 5 second recharge which is too slow (I use Nightbringer for the 36% chance to reduce cast time) so a second animate skill is really helpful. Bleeding (Jagged Bones) + poision (Death Nova) + disease (Putrid Flesh) often leads to max degeneration. Double animates means I have more expendible minions for Putrid Flesh. Shambling and Jagged Bones means I can get even better minions if I destroy lesser ones. Putrid Bile is a strong skill to get that first minion or just clean up a mob that much quicker since a single target usually goes down fast anyways.

3) Spiteful Spirit, Reckless Haste, Desecrate Enchantments, Defile Enchantments, Enfeebling Blood, Mark of Pain, Barbs, Death Pact Signet

Not much to say here as it's a fairly typical build. Desecrate/Defile Enchantments adds AoE damage to clean up mobs faster because often Spiteful Spirit doesn't get as much coverage as you would hope.

4) Icy Veins, Vengeful Weapon, Spirit Light, Mend Body and Soul, Protective was Kaolai, Life, Recuperation, Death Pact Signet

Icy Veins dramatically increases the amount of damage this character does so s/he has something to do when not healing (a situation I sometimes get when running a monk). I tried Weapon of Warding instead of Vengeful Weapon but the hero never used it well. Recuperation is nice to keep those minions alive a bit longer and energy is rarely an issue when the build gets rolling. Plus, the extra spirit allows for a bit more mobility for Spirit Light and Mend Body and Soul in case Life is recharging and out of range. The heal party effect of Protective was Kaolai, Life, and my Light of Deliverance (even with its 2 second cast time) cannot be overlooked.

The thing I like about this that the original version does not allow is that it offers more damage to get the minion ball rolling. Starting the zone with Pain Inverter, Icy Veins, Spiteful Spirit (or Mark of Pain if you already have minions), and Putrid Bile is a very strong way to kill that first enemy. Icy Veins and Putrid Bile weaken the mob. Minions start getting online which just increase the damage.

For henchmen, I usually go 1 protector or healer, and 3 damage dealers or 2 damage dealers and 1 interrupter depending on the area.

Grey_Ghost · Nov 20, 2007, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ump

First of all, I had one too many times when the minion master used death pact signet and then died because of it causing all minions to turn on me. Therefore, that skill had to go.

Just a quick reply... Sab's MM never had Death Pact in either version posted here IIRC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balian

Rt/N
[skill]Boon of Creation[/skill][skill]Explosive Growth[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Minions[/skill][skill]Jagged Bones[/skill][skill]Death Nova[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Signet of Creation[/skill][skill]Flesh of My Flesh[/skill]

Spawning 12 + 2 +1
Death Magic 12

Anyone try/ing this out? Just how well is the Hero using Signet of Creation? I mostly ask because I'd rather have Xandra cross my screen every now and then instead of Olias.

cyber88 · Nov 20, 2007, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ump

My variation to put more damage on heroes because I am a monk.

1) Reversal of Fortune, Dwayna's Kiss, Light of Deliverance, Protective Spirit, Pain Inverter, Technobabble, Shield of Absorption, Aegis

Heals and prots as needed. Instead of condition removal and hex removal, I bring Pain Inverter which is great to get that first kill, especially for AoE damagers or for a boss. Plus, Technobabble is a decent AoE damage skill that sometimes provides daze that is otherwise missing from this setup.

2) Animate Bone Minions, Animate Shambling Horror, Jagged Bones, Blood of the Master, Death Nova, Putrid Bile, Putrid Flesh, Signet of Lost Souls

First of all, I had one too many times when the minion master used death pact signet and then died because of it causing all minions to turn on me. Therefore, that skill had to go. Animate Bone Minions has a 5 second recharge which is too slow (I use Nightbringer for the 36% chance to reduce cast time) so a second animate skill is really helpful. Bleeding (Jagged Bones) + poision (Death Nova) + disease (Putrid Flesh) often leads to max degeneration. Double animates means I have more expendible minions for Putrid Flesh. Shambling and Jagged Bones means I can get even better minions if I destroy lesser ones. Putrid Bile is a strong skill to get that first minion or just clean up a mob that much quicker since a single target usually goes down fast anyways.

3) Spiteful Spirit, Reckless Haste, Desecrate Enchantments, Defile Enchantments, Enfeebling Blood, Mark of Pain, Barbs, Death Pact Signet

Not much to say here as it's a fairly typical build. Desecrate/Defile Enchantments adds AoE damage to clean up mobs faster because often Spiteful Spirit doesn't get as much coverage as you would hope.

4) Icy Veins, Vengeful Weapon, Spirit Light, Mend Body and Soul, Protective was Kaolai, Life, Recuperation, Death Pact Signet

Icy Veins dramatically increases the amount of damage this character does so s/he has something to do when not healing (a situation I sometimes get when running a monk). I tried Weapon of Warding instead of Vengeful Weapon but the hero never used it well. Recuperation is nice to keep those minions alive a bit longer and energy is rarely an issue when the build gets rolling. Plus, the extra spirit allows for a bit more mobility for Spirit Light and Mend Body and Soul in case Life is recharging and out of range. The heal party effect of Protective was Kaolai, Life, and my Light of Deliverance (even with its 2 second cast time) cannot be overlooked.

The thing I like about this that the original version does not allow is that it offers more damage to get the minion ball rolling. Starting the zone with Pain Inverter, Icy Veins, Spiteful Spirit (or Mark of Pain if you already have minions), and Putrid Bile is a very strong way to kill that first enemy. Icy Veins and Putrid Bile weaken the mob. Minions start getting online which just increase the damage.

For henchmen, I usually go 1 protector or healer, and 3 damage dealers or 2 damage dealers and 1 interrupter depending on the area.

Actually, like you I play a monk too but I play a smite monk. Similiar to you, it takes a bit longer to start the minion army but once it is started, it should be easier. Prior to Sab's builds, I ran a variation on the MM using Shambling Horror, Bone Minions, Icy Veins, Putrid Bile, BoTM, Death Nova, SoLS & Hard Res. The killing powers is quite an eye opener. :P

I haven't run any types of variations on Sab's builds yet but reading your post, I think I will swap some skills to see the effects. :P I will play around & update this thread.

Norrin · Nov 20, 2007, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey_Ghost

Anyone try/ing this out? Just how well is the Hero using Signet of Creation? I mostly ask because I'd rather have Xandra cross my screen every now and then instead of Olias.

I did and I like it. I replaced signet of creation with the EOTN death magic skill, causes -3 health degen for like 15 seconds or so then does 50 or so damage to adjacent foes if the target dies while affected.

Palek · Nov 20, 2007, 01:26 PM // 13:26

I forgot to say: I vanquished Tomb of Primeval King with this build and henchs only. That is, me + 3 heroes + 4 henchs (2 rangers + 2 mages). I made this 4 times (indeed, 6 effords), about 1 hours each time and received only 1 green weapon :-(. Note: I often change 3-th necro on monk-prot-hero, because it's no so much flesh in this place. I heard, that it' possible to vanquishe Tomb in Hard Mode with 2 humans and 6 heroes.

Dronte · Nov 20, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey_Ghost

Just a quick reply... Sab's MM never had Death Pact in either version posted here IIRC.

Anyone try/ing this out? Just how well is the Hero using Signet of Creation? I mostly ask because I'd rather have Xandra cross my screen every now and then instead of Olias.

I use a similar build, because I dont have GW:EN so only have 2 necro heroes, works really good.

furanshisuko · Nov 20, 2007, 08:40 PM // 20:40

really great work on the builds

Palek · Nov 21, 2007, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Note: In hard place I often use 2 necros (MM and SS) and 1 monk-prot:
Mo/Me, 10 Inspiration, 12-14 PP, 12 DF: Channeling - Power Drain - Drain Enchanchment - ZB - RoF - Aegis - PS. This buils is not good in places, where foes dies as flyes ;-), but good in places, where foes doesn't want to die quickly.

cyber88 · Nov 22, 2007, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyber88

Actually, like you I play a monk too but I play a smite monk. Similiar to you, it takes a bit longer to start the minion army but once it is started, it should be easier. Prior to Sab's builds, I ran a variation on the MM using Shambling Horror, Bone Minions, Icy Veins, Putrid Bile, BoTM, Death Nova, SoLS & Hard Res. The killing powers is quite an eye opener. :P

I haven't run any types of variations on Sab's builds yet but reading your post, I think I will swap some skills to see the effects. :P I will play around & update this thread.

Tested the variation. With the MM hero deck out fully on death skills, the mobs are indeed dropping faster. Will continue to test in other areas.

kvndoom · Nov 26, 2007, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey_Ghost

Just a quick reply... Sab's MM never had Death Pact in either version posted here IIRC.

Anyone try/ing this out? Just how well is the Hero using Signet of Creation? I mostly ask because I'd rather have Xandra cross my screen every now and then instead of Olias.

I tried it on Xandra, and found that she'll keep Explosive Growth maintained, or Boon of Creation (if I disable EG), but doesn't like to keep both up all the time. Given the choice, I'd rather her have Boon up for energy management, so I may sub a different skill for EG. I don't have my 3rd necro unlocked, but with a team of only 4, my W/x, N/Me. N/Rt and Rt/N, I was able to get over 200 kills in one zone (outside Olaf's place, forget the name), with only 4 deaths and not a single party wipe. Most impressive. I did make one of my necros N/Me, because Epidemic is just too good a spell in PVE to pass up.

And BTW, these builds rock Sab. Thanks for posting them. I may have to put some time into PVE again.

cyber88 · Nov 27, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

And BTW, these builds rock Sab. Thanks for posting them. I may have to put some time into PVE again.

Welcome back to PvE.

Xylia · Nov 28, 2007, 05:45 PM // 17:45

So I modified this build and used it to steamroll through Catacombs of Kathandrax today. I wasn't sure how many corpses there would be down there, so I didn't bring any minions. I think that there would have been enough corpses, but they probably would have killed the becalmed djinn's, and that just would have been messy.

I was running a necro, as well, so I basically had a 4 necro build

. I chose blood magic for spoil victor...might switch something out for [skill]Blood Ritual[/skill], but there just aren't that many good blood skills. I brought some vamp stuff to help stay alive. Instead of running an MM, I ran an IV necro with putrid bile and rising bile. This resulted in a huge spike when something died. Threw in putrid explosion for fun. I didn't really notice a lack of energy even without the minions - things were dying plenty fast. I have a few other ideas for what to do with the build, which I'll add below.

I brought the archer henchman, the protection henchman, the fighter henchman, and the guardian henchman (plenty of physical damage for MoP). I didn't have any problems staying alive, but you could bring the paragon for more prot or the healer hench for healing if you feel the need. All of the builds have at least one self heal with [skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill] - most of them have more healing.

Me: N/Any Spoil Inverter
12+3+1 blood magic
12+1 soul reaping
[skill]Spoil Victor[/skill][skill]Barbed Signet[/skill][skill]Vampiric Gaze[/skill][skill]Strip Enchantment[/skill][skill]Pain Inverter[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Awaken the Blood[/skill][skill]Sunspear Rebirth Signet[/skill]

My no MM version of Sab's build
N/Rt - SS curses (Same as Sab's, but I use superior curses)
Curses: 12+1+3
Soul Reaping: 12+1
[skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill][skill]Reckless Haste[/skill][skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill][skill]Insidious Parasite[/skill][skill]Barbs[/skill][skill]Rip Enchantment[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]

N/Rt - Restoration necro (same as Sab's)
Soul Reaping: 12+1+1
Restoration Magic: 12
[skill]Weapon of Remedy[/skill][skill]Vengeful Weapon[/skill][skill]Mend Body and Soul[/skill][skill]Spirit Light[/skill][skill]Protective was Kaolai[/skill][skill]Life[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]

N/Rt - Putrid IV necro
Death Magic: 12+1+3
Soul Reaping: 12+1
[skill]Icy Veins[/skill][skill]Putrid Bile[/skill][skill]Rising Bile[/skill][skill]Putrid Explosion[/skill][skill]Signet of Sorrow[/skill][skill]Taste of Pain[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]

------
Possible improvements:
Spoil Victor doesn't do much against normal monsters, and pain inverter does more against bosses.
Change the Death necro to a secondary ranger and bring EoE - something like:
Death Magic: 11+1+3
Soul Reaping: 10+1
Beast Mastery: 10
[skill]Icy Veins[/skill][skill]Putrid Bile[/skill][skill]Rising Bile[/skill][skill]Putrid Explosion[/skill][skill]Signet of Sorrow[/skill][skill]Taste of Pain[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Edge of Extinction[/skill]

For areas where you can have an MM, this build might work:
Death Magic: 11+1+3
Soul Reaping: 10+1
Beast Mastery: 10
[skill]Icy Veins[/skill][skill]Putrid Bile[/skill][skill]Rising Bile[/skill][skill]Death Nova[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Minions[/skill][skill]Toxicity[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Edge of Extinction[/skill]
EoE would blow up all your minions, but if you have death nova on all of them, that might be a good thing. Obviously don't bring EoE if you're fighting "human" mobs. Winnowing might be a good choice to add an extra +4 damage to all of your minions, as well.

eloogosciu · Nov 28, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Maybe somebody will sum up these builds and create one universal trio which works everywhere and has a good use?